I couldn't agree more. Since you mentioned The Boyz, I'm going to point out that Wild Cards has been doing the same for decades. (Full disclosure, I've written Wild Cards stories.) Flawed, f**ed up characters who find themselves in the middle of terrible goings on that they are forced to address using their powers. And I'd say most of them are reluctant heroes at best.
One thing you didn't mention were "street level" characters like Daredevil. Unlike Iron Man and his ilk, they've chosen to fight crime of the more low-level (though significant in context) nature. They rarely get "epic" tales. Do you think this the nature of their powers that determines the scope of their heroism? Their problems certainly are much the same, if not more pronounced, than the "epic" characters.
Agreed on all points. Wild Cards totally doesn't get enough credit for breaking trail in the genre. I was always looking back there writing Invincible. "The Sleeper" and "Winter's Chill" are classic.
And agreed on the street-level. I loved the Jessica Jones series partly for that reason. It stays close people's lives and feelings, never tries to get cosmic.
(I'll give Galactus a pass. He's cosmic, that's just who he is he can't help it!)
I think probably yes? TV shows are helped by not having very much effects budget so they can't do galactic wars etc.? I'm just saying that, but maybe it's actually true. Like Caroline was saying, Daredevil and adjacent work better in this regard. (also credit to the writers and all, but its a useful creative constraint).
I tried to like The Boys but it was so based on shock value and its clever-for-half-a-second premise of what if superheroes were bad and racist and stuff. Renewed for a fifth season! And they didn't even let me write one of them.
IMO TV can do a better job because they have more literal time for stories. A 2-hour movie has a harder time than a 10-hour TV season. If you subtract at least 30 minutes for the obligatory how-I-got-my-powers, there isn't much left in a movie. Over the last twenty-five years, TV can do a better job of telling long-form stories (Sopranos, Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, etc.)
I couldn't agree more. Since you mentioned The Boyz, I'm going to point out that Wild Cards has been doing the same for decades. (Full disclosure, I've written Wild Cards stories.) Flawed, f**ed up characters who find themselves in the middle of terrible goings on that they are forced to address using their powers. And I'd say most of them are reluctant heroes at best.
One thing you didn't mention were "street level" characters like Daredevil. Unlike Iron Man and his ilk, they've chosen to fight crime of the more low-level (though significant in context) nature. They rarely get "epic" tales. Do you think this the nature of their powers that determines the scope of their heroism? Their problems certainly are much the same, if not more pronounced, than the "epic" characters.
Also, swell post!
Agreed on all points. Wild Cards totally doesn't get enough credit for breaking trail in the genre. I was always looking back there writing Invincible. "The Sleeper" and "Winter's Chill" are classic.
And agreed on the street-level. I loved the Jessica Jones series partly for that reason. It stays close people's lives and feelings, never tries to get cosmic.
(I'll give Galactus a pass. He's cosmic, that's just who he is he can't help it!)
Wild Cards! Forgot all about it, it was great!
Does this apply equally to TV shows? You mentioned The Boys, does a TV format allow for different kinds of story-telling?
I think probably yes? TV shows are helped by not having very much effects budget so they can't do galactic wars etc.? I'm just saying that, but maybe it's actually true. Like Caroline was saying, Daredevil and adjacent work better in this regard. (also credit to the writers and all, but its a useful creative constraint).
I tried to like The Boys but it was so based on shock value and its clever-for-half-a-second premise of what if superheroes were bad and racist and stuff. Renewed for a fifth season! And they didn't even let me write one of them.
IMO TV can do a better job because they have more literal time for stories. A 2-hour movie has a harder time than a 10-hour TV season. If you subtract at least 30 minutes for the obligatory how-I-got-my-powers, there isn't much left in a movie. Over the last twenty-five years, TV can do a better job of telling long-form stories (Sopranos, Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, etc.)